With the formation of the ASEAN Economic Community set to take place atthe end of this year, Singapore's Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong talkedto Vietnam News and other news outlets of ASEAN on major issues facingregional group members.
* The region has recently seen an influx of problems related to refugees and human trafficking. How do you feel about this?
Well,it is an issue that affects quite a number of countries in the region,so we need to discuss and see what we can do about it. It has to bedealt with upstream in source countries, where conditions must be quitetough for the people to think of becoming refugees in this way.
Youhave to also deal with human traffickers who are well-organisedentrenched groups in several countries. They make money out of this andhave an interest in keeping the flow going and extorting money fromdesperate human beings who are trying to go somewhere.
No countrycan take an endless number of refugees and say we just take them onhumanitarian grounds. And your own people will not accept it. Therefore,it has to be dealt with upstream. We should put a stop to humantrafficking.
* There have been issues of irregular migration inthe Andaman Sea and the Malacca Strait, with about 4,000 boat peoplestranded in Indonesia and Malaysia. Foreign media report ASEAN'sinability to find a solution. Would you like to comment?
Thereare many problems in the world. ASEAN cannot solve all of them. Evenwith regard to serious problems, we can work together, we can influenceone another, we can encourage other countries, but ASEAN is not onecountry and it's not possible for ASEAN to say you do that and you put astop to this.
These are problems that individual countries have to resolve.
* Do you think that ASEAN can remain united to handle the South China Sea (East Sea) dispute?
TheSouth China Sea (East Sea) dispute is an issue that directly affectsfour of the ASEAN countries, but indirectly affects the whole of ASEANbecause it is a security issue in the middle of Southeast Asia.
ASEANhas a stand, which is that we should be negotiating a Code of Conduct.We want to complete the Code of Conduct with China and are in theprocess of doing this. It will take a while, but I think there is anASEAN view on this. In terms of nuances, different ASEAN countries willhave slightly different positions because if you are a claimant state,you have a direct stake and you have to fight for your corner. If we arenot a claimant state, such as Singapore, we back your claim.
Weare not in a position to judge any claim. But we are in a position tosay we are affected by how this dispute is resolved and if it is notresolved peacefully in accordance with international law or theConvention on the Law of the Sea, we will have a problem. So, that iswhere ASEAN stands.
* How do you see ASEAN after the regionalintegration (ASEAN Economic Community) on December 31, given that thedevelopment gap is the main challenge?
I think when we make theASEAN community by the end of the year, that is going to be a very hugestep, but that is not going to be the end of the completion of ourco-operation. There are more agendas to be done, even to set the targetfor what we want to do by December this year. I suspect there will besome items we will not be able to complete by then and that will be ouroutstanding business.
But, beyond that, we need to think what wewant to do as a next step in our regional integration and cooperation,and we have got an ASEAN group to study this. I think they have got agroup of wise men looking at this and we look forward to theirrecommendations to work towards narrowing development gaps and how theIndo-Chinese countries can grow faster, either through Human ResourceDevelopment or trade or technical cooperation.
* There arethousands of migrant workers in Singapore, and some Singaporeanscomplain that these workers are stealing their livelihood. What is youropinion?
I think from the economic point of view, we needmigrant workers in Singapore because there are many jobs that oureconomy has created and there are not enough Singaporeans to fill allposts. There are no Singaporeans in construction or maritime industries.
Andthen, you have management and technical jobs, where you need a widerange of background and expertise and people who have been all over theworld; so you form a multinational team to work together.
We needtalents from all over the world. But if we have too many, then thatwill have social impacts. We are trying our best to create a balance. Wecan't do without foreign workers, but, at the same time, we have tomanage their inflow.
* Singapore and Vietnam have a commonproblem: expensive housing. It takes people 10-15 years of working justto own a house. How do you deal with it? Do you think it is a sign thatSingapore is experiencing a wealth divide?
I don't think we havesuch a serious problem that you must wait 10 or 15 years to own ahouse. I think if a young couple are getting married and planning tostart a family in their late 20s or early 30s and they have been workingfor five or seven years, it is quite possible that they will be able tomake a down payment and book a flat and by the time they get married,they will already have a flat in their name. Home ownership in Singaporecurrently is about 90 percent, so nearly every family lives in a flatof their own.
Earlier, there had been periods when it took alittle bit longer and people worried about not getting their flats soonenough when prices were high. But in terms of affordability, we makesure that, whether you are rich or poor, in Singapore, you havesignificant assets to your name.
Yes, we worry about incomesstretching out, we worry about low-end incomes not catching up fastenough, but through our Public Housing Programme, we make sure that wecan level up.
* Last year Singapore initiated the PioneerGeneration Package for older people. How much budget do you have tospend on the programme? Can it be said that Singapore once concentrateon the younger, working age generation rather than older people?
ThePioneer Generation Package was initiated because we felt that Singaporehad come very far in 50 years. And a lot of the progress we made wasbecause of the work of the first generation Singaporeans, the ones whowere adults around 1965, when we became independent. The ones who helpedmake and build the country from nothing when it was very poor and theones whose incomes were not so high as peoples' incomes today. And nowthey are retired. Overall, I think we put aside 8 billion SGD (5.9billion USD) from our budget into a fund. The fund will have income overthe years. So, by the time we spend the money, we estimate that 12 to13 billion SGD (8.8-9.5 billion USD) will be spent on this pioneergeneration. And it is mainly for healthcare purposes.
I think weneed to do more for older workers in the years to come. But we alsoneed to engage older workers more so that they are able to makecontributions.
* Singapore has a reputation for a low level of corruption. What is the key to eradication?
Icannot speak for other countries, but in our experience, we have gonefor a zero-tolerance approach: right from the beginning and right fromthe top to the bottom. And I think that is the only way you can tacklethe problem.
And it has to start from the top because if the bossis corrupt then he must have secretaries, he must have officers, andthey must know and conclude that if the boss can do this, then we canalso do this.
And then they will help themselves and so thewhole system will become impossible. So we started off right at thebeginning, with an attitude that we will not accept corruption at all.From 1959, when the PAP first became the government of Singapore, wewere very strict and we showed we were prepared to act against whoeverwas found to engage in corrupt behaviour.
If you have transgressed and it was proven, then you had to pay the price and penalties were severe.-VNA
* The region has recently seen an influx of problems related to refugees and human trafficking. How do you feel about this?
Well,it is an issue that affects quite a number of countries in the region,so we need to discuss and see what we can do about it. It has to bedealt with upstream in source countries, where conditions must be quitetough for the people to think of becoming refugees in this way.
Youhave to also deal with human traffickers who are well-organisedentrenched groups in several countries. They make money out of this andhave an interest in keeping the flow going and extorting money fromdesperate human beings who are trying to go somewhere.
No countrycan take an endless number of refugees and say we just take them onhumanitarian grounds. And your own people will not accept it. Therefore,it has to be dealt with upstream. We should put a stop to humantrafficking.
* There have been issues of irregular migration inthe Andaman Sea and the Malacca Strait, with about 4,000 boat peoplestranded in Indonesia and Malaysia. Foreign media report ASEAN'sinability to find a solution. Would you like to comment?
Thereare many problems in the world. ASEAN cannot solve all of them. Evenwith regard to serious problems, we can work together, we can influenceone another, we can encourage other countries, but ASEAN is not onecountry and it's not possible for ASEAN to say you do that and you put astop to this.
These are problems that individual countries have to resolve.
* Do you think that ASEAN can remain united to handle the South China Sea (East Sea) dispute?
TheSouth China Sea (East Sea) dispute is an issue that directly affectsfour of the ASEAN countries, but indirectly affects the whole of ASEANbecause it is a security issue in the middle of Southeast Asia.
ASEANhas a stand, which is that we should be negotiating a Code of Conduct.We want to complete the Code of Conduct with China and are in theprocess of doing this. It will take a while, but I think there is anASEAN view on this. In terms of nuances, different ASEAN countries willhave slightly different positions because if you are a claimant state,you have a direct stake and you have to fight for your corner. If we arenot a claimant state, such as Singapore, we back your claim.
Weare not in a position to judge any claim. But we are in a position tosay we are affected by how this dispute is resolved and if it is notresolved peacefully in accordance with international law or theConvention on the Law of the Sea, we will have a problem. So, that iswhere ASEAN stands.
* How do you see ASEAN after the regionalintegration (ASEAN Economic Community) on December 31, given that thedevelopment gap is the main challenge?
I think when we make theASEAN community by the end of the year, that is going to be a very hugestep, but that is not going to be the end of the completion of ourco-operation. There are more agendas to be done, even to set the targetfor what we want to do by December this year. I suspect there will besome items we will not be able to complete by then and that will be ouroutstanding business.
But, beyond that, we need to think what wewant to do as a next step in our regional integration and cooperation,and we have got an ASEAN group to study this. I think they have got agroup of wise men looking at this and we look forward to theirrecommendations to work towards narrowing development gaps and how theIndo-Chinese countries can grow faster, either through Human ResourceDevelopment or trade or technical cooperation.
* There arethousands of migrant workers in Singapore, and some Singaporeanscomplain that these workers are stealing their livelihood. What is youropinion?
I think from the economic point of view, we needmigrant workers in Singapore because there are many jobs that oureconomy has created and there are not enough Singaporeans to fill allposts. There are no Singaporeans in construction or maritime industries.
Andthen, you have management and technical jobs, where you need a widerange of background and expertise and people who have been all over theworld; so you form a multinational team to work together.
We needtalents from all over the world. But if we have too many, then thatwill have social impacts. We are trying our best to create a balance. Wecan't do without foreign workers, but, at the same time, we have tomanage their inflow.
* Singapore and Vietnam have a commonproblem: expensive housing. It takes people 10-15 years of working justto own a house. How do you deal with it? Do you think it is a sign thatSingapore is experiencing a wealth divide?
I don't think we havesuch a serious problem that you must wait 10 or 15 years to own ahouse. I think if a young couple are getting married and planning tostart a family in their late 20s or early 30s and they have been workingfor five or seven years, it is quite possible that they will be able tomake a down payment and book a flat and by the time they get married,they will already have a flat in their name. Home ownership in Singaporecurrently is about 90 percent, so nearly every family lives in a flatof their own.
Earlier, there had been periods when it took alittle bit longer and people worried about not getting their flats soonenough when prices were high. But in terms of affordability, we makesure that, whether you are rich or poor, in Singapore, you havesignificant assets to your name.
Yes, we worry about incomesstretching out, we worry about low-end incomes not catching up fastenough, but through our Public Housing Programme, we make sure that wecan level up.
* Last year Singapore initiated the PioneerGeneration Package for older people. How much budget do you have tospend on the programme? Can it be said that Singapore once concentrateon the younger, working age generation rather than older people?
ThePioneer Generation Package was initiated because we felt that Singaporehad come very far in 50 years. And a lot of the progress we made wasbecause of the work of the first generation Singaporeans, the ones whowere adults around 1965, when we became independent. The ones who helpedmake and build the country from nothing when it was very poor and theones whose incomes were not so high as peoples' incomes today. And nowthey are retired. Overall, I think we put aside 8 billion SGD (5.9billion USD) from our budget into a fund. The fund will have income overthe years. So, by the time we spend the money, we estimate that 12 to13 billion SGD (8.8-9.5 billion USD) will be spent on this pioneergeneration. And it is mainly for healthcare purposes.
I think weneed to do more for older workers in the years to come. But we alsoneed to engage older workers more so that they are able to makecontributions.
* Singapore has a reputation for a low level of corruption. What is the key to eradication?
Icannot speak for other countries, but in our experience, we have gonefor a zero-tolerance approach: right from the beginning and right fromthe top to the bottom. And I think that is the only way you can tacklethe problem.
And it has to start from the top because if the bossis corrupt then he must have secretaries, he must have officers, andthey must know and conclude that if the boss can do this, then we canalso do this.
And then they will help themselves and so thewhole system will become impossible. So we started off right at thebeginning, with an attitude that we will not accept corruption at all.From 1959, when the PAP first became the government of Singapore, wewere very strict and we showed we were prepared to act against whoeverwas found to engage in corrupt behaviour.
If you have transgressed and it was proven, then you had to pay the price and penalties were severe.-VNA
